And how does that eventually transform into leading a "gentle life?"

For me, I struggle with forgiveness (as often as I need to), and -- with God's help -- I eventually get to a place where I can, truly, forgive. Sometimes it takes longer than I would like, but it's the right thing to do, and I deal with it until I am able to let go. Some things are easier than others....

However, when the precipitating (provoking?) factors continue to take place, I find myself very, very, angry. It's not just about something from the past...but when it's continual, in the present, I have a difficult time "letting go."

While I know that is connected to emotional eating, I suspect that connects to other parts of this transformation process. So...can we talk? Thanks.

~Kimberly

I have learned that you cannot always change the things around you, but you can change the you. If I find myself in a place where it allows me to become angry, I step back and look at the big picture. Why am I here? How did I get here? You can't always change what is going on around you, but you can change WHAT IS around you. Every once and a while I come across a person that wants to hurt me or anger me. The best thing you can do is try to fight fire with WATER, do your best, and just let them be. So... anger comes from what is around you, change what is around you, even if it means placing yourself elsewhere!

Forgiveness is awesome. For me, it started with forgiving myself. That was the hardest part. After that, forgiving everyone else is a piece of cake!

Mike

Kimberly,
I had a lot of inner anger, at myself, others, relationships, etc. and as i worked on myself, healing myself for my own good, all the other anger seemed to just dissipate into nothing. I found that life is too beautiful and too short to spend my energy on being angry.

I would say first depending on the factors, remove yourself as much as you can from the things that make you so mad, like many things out of sight out of mind until you get to a point where you feel you can deal with the situation in a way that wont make you angry.

Im sorry i dont have a more definitive answer for you but that is my experience.

Best,
Neil

Is any of this abuse? I ask because if it is an abusive situtaion that is causing the continual problem, I would advise someone to get professional help.

If it is just little annoyances, that's a different story.

Love and Forgiveness are two topics I am working on all the time. What I am learning is that Ego is the root cause of most "anger" or "annoyances" I may feel. If you love me you would........... Is that true? Is it true that if someone loves you they have to ............... (whatever). Does love require people to treat us the way WE want them to treat us? I don't know.

Obviously, I have no answers, I am exploring this topic, myself. lol

Forgiveness. I have learned there is forgiveness and then there is QUantum Forgiveness: seeing someone as NEW, free from their faults. Even if the "fault" was five seconds ago. Wild, huh??

Can we do that easily? I know I can't, but it is fun to try. But, again, I know nothing of ABUSIVE situations, so I am just talking about arguments, fights, etc.

Quantum forgiveness means you forgive someone not because "they were wrong and you were right" but because you FORGIVE THEM, period. You see them as NEW free from that fault.

I don't know... deep stuff.

Wanted to clarify: How would you love someone if you didn't see their faults?

How would you love someone if you had no fears, frustrations, or past "junk" associated with that person?

How would you love someone if you were not jealous, or afraid of losing them?

To truly love we have to forgive on a quantum level. Or, we are just two egos fighting for "specialness."

P.s. I don't know if anything I say makes sense to anyone other than me. This stuff is still kinda unclear to me and I have a hard time putting the words together. lol

Remember,

We all choose to label ourselves as angry, happy, excited, depressed, etc.

Once you are able to see everything in life as energy that you choose to label, and nothing more than that, you are then in control of your life. Do not allow the external factors that we must all face each and every day of our lives dictate how you think, feel, and behave if you want to succeed. If you allow external factors to direct you, and this means that you are not the one in control, and you are rendering yourself powerless against even the smallest of obstacles, and following this path will never allow you to reach your true potential in life. I suggest you take control of yourself and your life, and you will be astonished by how the pieces will just start falling into place like you never dreamed possible.

Take a few minutes each day to practice the lost art of introspection. By taking an honest look inside of ourselves every day, we will form a stronger relationship with ourselves, and begin to know this about yourself that you never even knew before, which is strange and interesting to think about. Become your own best friend.

Knowing who you are, and what you want in life is the most crucial step in Transformation in my opinion, and it should be the first step taken when we decide to travel another path. Sadly, this step is often neglected, and I believe that it is because of this that so many people fail soon after they begin traveling a new path, and resort back to what is familiar and comfortable, but I promise you that running and hiding behind old habits will never move you forward, and you will never know what true happiness and fulfillment is in your lifetime.

You can avoid failure by knowing who you are, and what you want. Once you define who you want to be, and what you want to achieve, you will find the drive and motivation that had been missing in your past attempts to Transform. I suggest you write out a definition of your goals, and it should be specific and clear. Writing out your definition of goals turns it from thoughts, which we cannot see or feel, and makes it a physical and very real object that you cannot alter with excuses and justifications. Writing a definition of goals will make you accountable for your actions and results. By creating a sense accountability for yourself, you will begin to unlock your true potential. Simply put, accountability forces us to be honest with ourselves, and once the justifications or lying to yourself stops, your life begins.

The answer is inside of you. Look.

*P.S.- read the song lyrics below if you want, they make sense to me.

"You're always saying that there's something wrong
I'm starting to believe it's your plan all along
Death came around, forced to hear its song
And know tomorrow can't be depended on
Seen the home inside your head
All locked doors and unmade beds
Open sores unattended
Let me say just once that
I have faced it, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
I escaped it, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
HAVEN'T tasted, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
The world awaits just up the stairs
Leave the pain for someone else
Nothing back there for you to find
Or was it you you left behind?
You're always saying you're too weak to be strong
You're harder on yourself than just about anyone
Why swim the channel just to get this far?
Halfway there, why would you turn around?
Darkness comes in waves...tell me,
Why invite it to stay?
You're one with negativity
Yes, comfort is an energy
But why let the sad song play?
I have faced it, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
Oh I escaped it, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
HAVEN'T tasted, a life wasted
I'm never going back again
oh i erased it, a life wasted
I'm never going back again"

-Pearl Jam, Life Wasted

-Bobby Buoncristiano, CPT
Philly Fit-4-Life Head Trainer
www.PhillyFit4Life.com
bobby@phillyfit4life.com
267.975.9186

Such an interesting post. Thank you! I'm continually exploring anger and forgiveness in my life. One thing I've found through my work is that often, believe or not - anger is a tool that protects us. Anger, in many cases (mine included) is a much preferred way of being, as compared to hurt, vulnerable and sad. Anger is more energizing and sometimes, we feel better angry, than we do sad. In my own situation, I feel like anger has been a helper in some ways - being angry helped me keep going in my life, when sadness would have swallowed me whole and I wouldn't have continued. So, in some ways, I'm thankful to the experience of anger. Now, I realize that I don't need it the way I used to -and that I can experience those other emotions and not be overtaken.

Sometimes too, when the anger is about little daily things, that people do that seem to make us crazy, I have to stop and ask myself "what am I REALLY angry about?" I find that I often project my anger about something else, onto other issues or people.

Hope I am making sense. I think it's awesome that we are all willing to acknowledge anger and find out what to do about it, and share with one another. Thanks for posting!

Interesting,

I too have used anger as a way to propel me forward, especially in my soccer career, and I have to admit that it did help me push a little harder, and sharpen my determination at times.

However, it was not until I eliminated anger, and replaced it with higher levels of thought and concentration that I began to dominate on a level that I never knew I was capable of operating at.

Anger can be a good tool to use in the initial stages of a new task, but once you establish the skill and confidence necessary to operate at a high level, lose the anger.....

-Bobby Buoncristiano, CPT

Kimberly:

Christ said "Be angry but do not sin" Anger is for a purpose, so is forgiveness. They are two different things, yet interconnected. I think when a sin (many definitions) is committed during anger then forgiveness needs to take place. Anger by itself can be very justified at times. Letting the anger take over and control your life without any positive coming from it is very frustrating. Anger can be used as a tool for positive change if used right.

Just a thought!

Hugs, Mary Jo

Very nice. Very nice.

I love this thread, much to think about.. Cindy

Okay. I have a different perspective on this today in light of events in my own life.

Forget the quantum forgiveness stuff. I mean, really. If "the thing" that hurts you happens over and over and over again.... here's what you really need to do. Ask the following questions:

~ Do I have to put up with this?
~ Can I separate myself from this person/situation/whatever it is.

I mean, really. If someone is doing something over and over again that they KNOW hurts you, why put up with it?

And.... if you choose you cannot separate yourself (or won't)... the only other thing is to change your perspective on "the thing" so that it DOESN'T upset you. Because the thing will happen over and over and by staying in that situation, you are giving it permission to happen over and over again.

Not sure if this fits you at all, just thoughts I had rolling through my head last night.

Take it, leave it, or dump it in the trash..

But, I hope you have a great day!!!

“Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.
Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.”
-Bruce Lee

Yes and that water in Bruce Lee led to a 3 inch punch that can send a man flying!!!! I love it!! Water!

Forgiveness? A favorite topic of mine! Just listen to "The Heart of the Matter" by Don Henley...

There are people in your life who come and go,
They let you down, you know they hurt your pride.
You better put it all behind you, baby, cause life goes on,
You keep carryin' that anger, it will eat you up inside.

I've been tryin' to get down
To the heart of the matter
Cause the flesh will get weak
And the ashes will scatter
And I think it's about foregiveness
Forgiveness
Even if you don't love me anymore

"The Heart of the Matter"
Mike Campbell, Don Henley and J.D. Souther

"You can't give people what they want, you have to give them what they need!" -Don Henley

You ask very good questions Kimberly!

In May I went to a week long Zen silent meditation retreat and the work we did around anger was much different than anything that I have ever experienced. The Zen priest actually believes that anger is not a feeling. Anger is a violent external reaction and shame is a violent internal reaction.

His beliefs were that below the anger you actually experience a feeling, typically sadness and it is triggered by deep caring and concern.

If you can get to the point in which that you understand that anger is now triggering deep caring, then you can address that caring in productive manner.

I am going to send him this thread and see if we can get a response from him!

Also, have your read "The Shack"? What a powerful view on anger and forgiveness!

Joe love the insight! I'll use this analogy when the "blood starts boiling" Thank yoiu. Best weekend to All! Mike

Yea...my Zen Priest has become a member!

He emailed me as said he prepared a reply and could not get it to post...here is his profile...give him a welcome it you get a chance!

http://www.transformation.com/members/Doshin

My appologies for so many words. Not very Zen like, and yet anger is such an important topic.

Anger can be direct and violent or indirect and very subtle like arguing or sideways sarcasm. Anger is something that I have struggled with all my life. Looking back, I can not remember a time that intense anger was not there. I tried many things over the years to deal with my anger: rebelling, athletics, running away, denial, martial arts, business and therapy to name but a few. It wasn’t until I ran into Zen and one particular Zen master, my Abbot JunPo Denis Kelly, Roshi, that I found something that changed my life. I discovered that rather than trying to control my anger, it was possible to actually transform it. His assertion that anger was not an emotion but a choice to act violently threw down a gauntlet for me. I had to discover the truth of this claim for myself. I would suggest that you look for yourself, directly into your own experiences as I am describing mine.

First I was amazed to notice that even as a rebellious teenager, I had always managed to not get angry when the cops were present. This implied that I had chosen not to be angry. It was very interesting looking at this. Then after considerable Zen training which allowed me to slow way down and remain present and aware as anger arose within me; I was amazed to discover that what felt like an explosion of anger which occurred in a microsecond was actually a whole process and series of distinct occurrences woven together in a habitual pattern. When I learned to remain present and not disappear into the stream of anger, I learned that I could actually identify the point at which I habitually made the choice to act violently. It was an identifiable point right before anger exploded and “I”, my consciousness disappeared into the anger. With practice I learned see the choice point coming and make a different choice. What was a source of tremendous suffering was transformed into clarity and compassion. My angst became my liberation. What was once most troubling has now become my calling. As a Zen Priest, I help others deal with their own anger, suffering, addictions and shame. Through practice of Mondo Zen™, we transform their "angst into liberation".

So the next time anger explodes into your life, the next time violent behavior spills into your relationships, consider this: Can anyone make you angry? See if you can identify the external spark that ignited the anger. Then look for the internal cause of the anger. The violence explodes outside of you and the cause of the anger is where? Dig there, beneath your anger, and then see if you can find the one who chooses the violence and exactly when that choice is made. See if you can find the message that is concealed within the anger. The message is that "You really care". Then go deeper still and see if you can see how much you care—see that beneath the choice to act violently is fear and beneath that is sadness. Beneath all that self referencing fear, sadness and noise is a selfless, deep caring. The more angry you get, the more you really care. Then begin to laugh as you see the childish way that you have chosen to show how much you care. Are you beginning to get the joke and smell the liberation? Next, let's look at shame.

I am leaving for a 7 day silent retreat in the morning.
Many blessings,
Doshin

On the rare occassions I personally get angry it lasts for all of about 2 seconds, then I go on about my business and forget it. I bottle nothing up though, and that's wrong too. I will tell you how I feel about something right then and there. As someone who has ADHD all his life, I've learned if I store my anger it's not pretty when I finally open the bottle. And usually at people that don't deserve it. Which is better? Prolly something in the middle, but I'm not a middle of the road person! Perhaps that will be the focus of my next Transformation... thanks for the topic, gave me some food for thought.